Messages

31

New Server Proposals / Re: changing server 7 scoring discussion

« on: December 15, 2013, 10:50:24 pm »

I don`t quite understand your idea Imus. Maybe you can explain the following:

Point out with a comment or in the goal explanation that the performance is a SECONDARY goal. Something like this:

    PRIMARY objective: reach 30M company value
    SECONDARY objective: obtain as high performance as possible to further increase your score

We can either have a CV&Performance Goal- in this case performance is demanded in order to win the game
                                   CV Goal                      - in this case performance is not demanded and not recorded

How can we have both of them at once? Even if I set the performance for a small level as Beul suggested, if you obtain more then demanded, it is still not counted at all.

As always the main issue is HOW we communicate things to our players. It took me a while to understand how someone had beaten my high score on s7 with exactly the same game length as me even tho we reached the same goal. Using my given "goal" explanation would solve this confusion.

I agree and also want to add another thing. One of the problem that stood in the way was the fact that the scoring was kept secret for both players and admins. Only the members who participated in the developing knew what the parameters were. So admins would just read what the players were reading. So no possible way of helping them.

About the last part of your comment...I have no idea. From what I know, performance was introduced as a measure to stop the goal cheating. I never heard of performance being counted for points. Indeed, performance means variables....no of trains...no of stations and so on and those variables can influence your scoring and this is the way differences appear. But the goal plugin doesn`t take into account performance itself as counted and displayed when you type !cv .

Basically, if I remove performance from the goal, it would still be counted throught the variables in the CV, but it would not be demanded in order to finish the game.
Aaaah.....I`m starting to get what you want to say in the first lines.
Hmm...well sure....we could post such an announcement....but the differences in case of a small server would be minor (one player gets 40 points, the other gets 45 points....(an example)) and wouldn`t players just give it up fighting for performance in the end ? Most of all because it`s not required.

I hope I understood what you wanted to say...if not..please correct me

32

Complaints / Re: Forum behavour

« on: December 15, 2013, 03:08:34 pm »

I have read what you answered and indeed...your decision to move the topic is very good.I will answer this topic too but it requires a much bigger answer, therefore I will take my time.

33

New Server Proposals / Re: changing server 7 scoring discussion

« on: December 15, 2013, 03:02:17 pm »

If that happens, we will add performance. But from what I recall, the first CB server was CB&CV. I remember back then that the motivation for the CV was for scoring.
This I don`t know....performance was introduced for a lot of time. Indeed, we will watch the server and the scoring.

34

New Server Proposals / Re: CHANGING SERVER 7

« on: December 15, 2013, 11:24:20 am »

@Gopher :
1) The new server will finish in the same time as the current one....possibly 10-20 minutes more
2,3 - answered at 1)
4) That`s a very good idea Gopher and we will disable money transfer or indeed limit it to an amount of 50k if possible
5) We do not have a cash goal currently. It`s not in the xShunter settings...therefore cannot be used. Or...perhaps I didn`t understood what you referring to....maybe you can explain this point...what does "cash goal" mean..
6) That is indeed what I had in mind. No performance or 100 perf
7) Again....what I had in mind...dunno if double...depends on the settings

Very good idea: Limit or disable money transfers.

@imus: Not possible....not included in the xShunter goal unfortunately. We only have CV,Perf and CB currently. It was included in the new scoring that xOR started working on, but don`t know the current state of it.  (EDIT: no longer relevant, also removed derailed part ~ Imus)

35

New Server Proposals / Re: CHANGING SERVER 7

« on: December 14, 2013, 11:22:32 pm »

In order to end this argument orderly, please post your reply if you want, then after 24 hours , please delete or change all the replies that contain non-topic comments. I will do the same in order to make this topic to the point. (EDIT: working on this ~ Imus)

@ Imus: Oppinion understood   Especially the following part:

ALEX HOW DARE YOU TOUCH S7 ... I KILL YOU!!!!!

  But in order to do that, you`d have to come to the OpenTTD channel   So I`m safe for a while.

@Chucky : Oppinion understood

36

New Server Proposals / Re: CHANGING SERVER 7

« on: December 14, 2013, 05:46:33 pm »

Was it so hard? Personally, when I said only the climate is decided and the duration, there are a million posibilities. Let me give you a few examples:

Steamer World(server9) is also a small temperate server
Asphalt King (only with trucks) was also a small server

We could do a server called "Top of the Hill" where all the map would be a hill. You can juggle a lot with settings, that`s why I wanted to see some oppinions expressed in numbers. Based on those, I`ll try to form an oppinion and implement them. The idea "if you double the train speed, you need to double the goal" is just theoretical speach, that`s what I ment by rephorma. It`s like they discuss it in the parliament.

I simply needed oppinions on what settings would  be the favourite of each of the ones who answer this post. But oppinions expressed in numbers.

Also, a small server could be one with 1024 x 1024.....if it can be finished in 1.5 hours max, map size doesn`t matter.

37

New Server Proposals / Re: CHANGING SERVER 7

« on: December 13, 2013, 09:52:49 pm »

People....that`s why I love you !!!! I ask about suggestions and you start discussing theories of life

Please use quantitative answers like:

Goal: 40 mil
Map Size: ....

And so on. Stop discussing public rephorma here   " A server should be smaller, because the monorail would bring a lot of cash"
I`m waiting for the proposals

38

New Server Proposals / CHANGING SERVER 7

« on: December 10, 2013, 06:49:08 pm »

As you all know, this time has come. My idea is as following:
-Changing server 7 to temperate will:

1. Leave S3 as the only desert CV that we got ( a good idea since it is mostly an empty server except for a few games a day when it reaches 5-7 player)
2. Give us the opportunity to improve a very old server and possibly to come up with a better gameplay for it (temperate is more recommended for small servers since it has a lot of trains and industries)

However, I must agree with Imus: Server 7 is our smallest server (about 1h) and it would be better to remain this way. So I ask all of you, if you want to propose scenarios which we can discuss for server 7 on temperate landscape. I hope we will be able to make the change during the week-end if Batt agrees too and if there are enough oppinions.

The fixed parameters: Small to Medium  Map
Goal that would last max 1h-1h30

A first idea that I`d want to try would be NO PERFORMANCE. This should allow us to test if performance is driving our new players away or not.

Thank You.

39

Introduction / Re: Hi

« on: November 28, 2013, 05:04:51 pm »

) The part with I KILL YOU was very funny.

I should say that because I`m asking you something in topic, and you post the answer in another topic

About your life, don`t worry. N-ice is here and will be here when you decide to spend some time:)

We are happy for the major changes in your life and most of all because you enjoy them. I know that the stress of being away from server 7 is hard
But still, we should never forget that life itself is more important then joining on IRC.

I`m happy to see that you can still offer us your advice and participate in the decisions (i`ll make the decision of removing s7 secret so you won`t know:P)

I wish you good luck, and, whenever you want to see us or your beloved server 7, you know where we are

40

Ban/Unban Requests / Re: Kwissy is a cheat

« on: November 27, 2013, 11:21:44 pm »

Ddr, thank you for posting. We will investigate all the recent games of this player and we will get back with an answer. If what you say is true, Kwissy is facing permanent ban.

41

Suggestions / Re: Changing Moneytransfers

« on: November 27, 2013, 11:18:46 pm »

I am sorry Kwissy, but you are not the one to decide here. Unfortunately, you are nothing here except someone with an obsession. We do have an admin team that makes the decisions and the operator team that implements them.

A rule of common sense would be to never try to force others not do something that you did. But you don`t care.
You also came up with a plan where others must learn to manage their money better because you cheat. You do not care about the very few new player that OpenTTD has and that are learning the game each day. For those the money transfer, is indeed a blessing and I`ve seen it being used a lot of did.

You make people waste their time with you, and search for "facts" and when you`re in front of them , you simply change the subject. That`s also what Chocolate-Starfish did.

As I said, from now , please talk to the admin team, or express your oppinion in any way about the money transfer.

@Kwissy: This topic is now closed, because it`s purpose has been passed.

Also, as I said on IRC, if what this player says here is true, I will personally make sure that this is your end in this community. The most bothering is your attitude (you think you know all, you`re always right, and you don`t care about responsabilities).

With this attitude and the all the arguments that you started here. With the fact that you already cheated once. With the fact that you do not admit anything, I can assure, it is more then enough for a permanent ban if what this players says is true.

@others Apologise for my agressive attitude , but I`ve really had enough of this guy and his attitude.
http://www.n-ice.org/openttd/forum/index.php?topic=488.msg2743;boardseen#new

42

Suggestions / Re: Changing Moneytransfers

« on: November 27, 2013, 10:15:01 pm »

Very well. Another session of opening the logs and searching for proofs for Kwissy.

I can tell you something Kwissy, your attitude is very infuriating. Never admitting what you do.

After re-reading the logs:

Transferring money 750x times in order to advance himself within the game is not something wrong.
Stealing the money from Constructor`s company is not something wrong.

Main Argument: It`s not in the rules (even if it is a situation where he cheated in order to advance himself within the game)
Could be even considered using an exploit. And yes Kwissy, stealing a player`s money without his permission is cheating.

Over-all attitude: very hostile and not willing to accept that what he did was wrong.

I hope tomorrow evening or saturday, I will have the time to search the logs of #OpenTTD (which are very massive) so I can post the conversations with Kwissy and Chocolate-Starfish from there too, so I can talk on facts from now on.

43

Suggestions / Re: Changing Moneytransfers

« on: November 27, 2013, 10:00:06 pm »

Kwissy, please remain on the polite-talking part of the conversation.

1st of all: the punishment was 3-4 weeks ago. I do have other things in life except remembering what you and Chocolate-Starfish said.

2nd: Denying that you did anything wrong is in fact a lie. Stealing from a player is something wrong. Trying to cheat the number of points is something wrong.

True, you apologised, but it was AFTER the punishment. I do remember why I banned you both: Because none of you considered that you did anything wrong.

That is why I reflected on the situation and choose to apply a punishment and not warn you and deduct the points.

44

Suggestions / Re: Changing Moneytransfers

« on: November 27, 2013, 09:56:15 pm »

)

The_Dude, you`re right, they did do it 1500x. I understood your point same as St2`s, I`m currently considering it and I`ve been thinking about it. But I`m still waiting to see the oppinions of the admins of n-ice on this matter.
As I said...if it was up to me...the difference is huge between transferring 20 mil or 40 mil (1x or 2x) and transferring 1500x. That can be clearly considered cheating to advance yourself within the game. In fact this is what it is since it advances your point number.

Kwissy`s punishment was 1 week originally. And it was for stealing someone else`s cv without their permission and for cheating. But after his team mate in this , Chocolate-Starfish or Kwissy himself (I don`t remember with who I talked from the 2 of them and searching the logs is not possible now) tried to lie until me the very end, I asked him one question:

If I search and the logs demonstrate that you and Kwissy cheated, I will double your punishments. He answered : OK , being absolutely sure that I can`t catch them.

Also, before applying the punishment, both of them try to lie, saying that they didn`t do anything wrong. As I said before, we had cases of transfer cheating where people apologised and showed that they trully regret what they did, so we didn`t apply any punishment. Here there was no sign of remorse before the punishment was applied, so I kept my word and doubled their punishment. From 1 week ban and 2000 points deduction to 2 weeks ban and 4000 points deduction.

You and St2 got a very good point there, but it still differs on the point of view: if you choose to judge the intention or not.

I hope that maybe, perhaps,possibly,pretty pretty pretty please, my fellow colleagues would like to post their oppinions here so that I can see if I`m representing the majority of oppinions or not

45

Suggestions / Re: Changing Moneytransfers

« on: November 27, 2013, 05:46:01 pm »

Kwissy, you lied when we caught you cheating, you`re lying now. You want to do a little psychology to see if in fact you were obsessed with the idea of money transfer?

1. Using the shoutbox :

Kwissy  21.11.2013 19:40 [UTC] :michael what exactly is the reason you scored 927 points on server 4... you transfered money?
Kwissy  21.11.2013 19:56 [UTC] :Maybe a scoringserver issue?  (after 16 minutes from the original post, you were still thinking about it and tried to make it look a bit more normal)
Michael 21.11.2013 20:34 [UTC]: heh, dont know, i just get it. Normally playin.
Michael 21.11.2013 20:35 [UTC] :You also get a lot of points I see
Kwissy  22.11.2013 08:52 [UTC]: yeah, but i scored my best ones in regular games, 20mio per train/year gives mass points (while he did what?)

Why did you ask him if it was a server error first? Could it be that the only possible outcome you were concentrated was the idea that he could have been cheated and not be punished?

-Writing in the forum
« on: November 21, 2013, 05:33:56 am » Starting this topic --->> means that 14 hours earlier before asking Michael about that, you were still thinking about money transfer.

Chucky`s reply came naturally from noticing all of the above. After that, I removed his scoring under the SUSPICION of cheating as it was writed in his profile.

Yes, Alex`s words: we can check in a minute to see if someone cheated. That`s why before Michael got on IRC to talk to us, we already knew that it was a server error.
Also, you should know that some of us got different responsabilities and permissions. In my case, I do not administrate the database. My colleagues Der_Herr and Myhorta do that. Verifying the game in the database takes about 1 minute. Also, from what I know, Myhorta will implement a way so the others can check the scoring the simplest way.
Most of all, error or not, I wanted an oppinion from Michael too which was important for us into finding out what happened with the scoring system. But those are admins problems which do not need to be known by the players. Overall it was no bluf when I told you we can find out.

"This can only happen when money transfers are enabled, else it would be clear from the start that it has to be something server-related"
Really? There are many ways of cheating the score, money transfer is only one....the only that obsesses you. Otherwise this sentence would not have existed.

Not consider a remove of moneytransfers just because Kwissy brought this kind of thread online again would be blind. Fact is, it has a good reason why people discuss in here and thats not because i started it, its because there are issues with it and people are free to share their opinion about the known facts.

I did consider it, otherwise I would not have answered the post. I just asked to understand that after seeing the other oppinions, I do not agree with your view. If there are more admins not agreeing to what I have said, please, write it here so we can see your oppinions too.

Issues with it? The only issues are yours which I do not agree with because some of the arguments you presented do not exist:

Michael cheated: not true
Kanneman cheated: not known
not in the rules: not true

So, I did consider it, I just do not agree with your oppinion, and after everything that was discussed here, my verdict is leaving the current rule as it is and money transfer enabled.

@Kwissy it is hard for me to believe because of what I described above. Personally, you should know that I`m not the only one considering that you recently got let`s say a small obsession with the money transfer.