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Messages - alex879ro

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46
Suggestions / Re: Changing Moneytransfers
« on: November 26, 2013, 01:33:27 pm »
I understand your oppinion. You are more decissive then me. Either it is or it isn`t.

I personally still see a difference between a player leaving and wanting to make a gift, and a player starting a company and transfering all of the money right before the end of the game.Technically we`re not punishing by the transferred amount, but we`re punishing the intention of creating another company and transferring the money to it which is indeed "cheating to advance yourself within the game".
Also, you know about the rule that each player with 1 company. I know that overall, the set of rules can lead to a small discussion here because there are ways through which a player can transfer the money without having 2 companies that are his at once, but still....it is a clear intention of advancing yourself within the game.

About the idea of players changing the course of a game because leaving and making gifts, we never had a complaint on this matter. At leas I never heard of someone complaining for this. I also never heard about large amounts being transferred this way. I did hear of a player dividing his money to all the other players. Indeed, it`s a small change in the course of the game, but nothing that can`t be understood (my oppinion)

So giving money when the specific player leaves the game is ok. Transferring money in order to advance yourself within the game is not ok.

In the case of Kwissy, he and chocolate-starfish made another company and transferred the money from constructor`s company. (chocolate-starfish was playing in the same company with constructor. Neither chocolate-starfish, nor constructor were planning to leave. Constructor was afk so they did this without telling him anything.

To answer your question: (in my oppinion) To give money can be ok or not, depends on the intention.

47
Suggestions / Re: Changing Moneytransfers
« on: November 25, 2013, 09:38:02 pm »
Beul, you`re making me agressive again. I asked him to cut it out with the idea.

All those above were oppinions pro/con stated because he was trying to convince me of something. To be honest, the underground cases are very small...into someone asking for 500k cause he goes broke. I consider that because the entire team of admins would have noticed it. We do have admins that play and also that play under different indentities. You were an admin, you really want me to explain you publicly how this is done?

Over-all, nobody ever considered the small cases to be a problem. As for the "underground network" , i do not consider that it exists. Also, I ask you the same thing that I asked Cossack: Do not post comments that will help other players cheat. I have messaged your your original reply. If it wasn`t tried until now, please do not give ideas.

From the oppinions that I saw here and from the admin talk that I`ve had with some colleagues, I consider that the money transfer is not a problem at least at the moment. I see no reason to make it harder for the few new players that OpenTTD still has by removing money transfer.

Kwissy mentioned the only case that we didn`t catch which is Kanneman. I stated the others so that he doesn`t believe that he is the first caught case.
Also, I don`t know if you do know this, but Kwissy has become a bit centered on this idea. He posted this topic in the same day or a bit after complaining about Michael. We started investigating the problem, we asked Michael to come on IRC, and surprise: It was an error of our own scoring system.

So I consider that 2 complaints in 2 consecutive days does point out a bit of an obsession.

48
Suggestions / Re: Changing Moneytransfers
« on: November 25, 2013, 07:24:15 pm »
Kwissy, as I said , you seem to be centered on a fact: the money transfer cheat. There may have been errors with Kanneman...or...I don`t know. Also, we do not verify evey second. We do verify from time to time.

There were 5 cases so far, as I remember:

2 cases got caught and punished
2 cases- caught, apologised and promised never to do it again
1 case - it was noticed for a few months and it slipped away (Kanneman case)

Also, I don`t consider that it is worth the time and the effort to find Kanneman`s game and to investigate if what he did was cheating or simply server error. Afterall, it`s only one game and it wasn`t caught. So he stopped after one game (error or not)

I consider this a pretty good statistic. Of course, if we would catch Kanneman doing such a thing, the punishment would be desastrous for him and bigger then yours.

In the meantime, let it go. Stop being so centered on this matter. You keep reminding about that case, but you keep forgeting the other 4 that were caught.
You also accused Michael, and you were wrong. Not every score like this is cheating. As I said...there are also scoring errors.

We have been having this scoring system for more then 2 years. I`d say it behaved quite well so far.

Also, you affirmation about the fact that we did not detect such cheatings before you did it is trully wrong.

You were the 4th case when this happened and the 2nd punished very hard mostly because of the attempt to lie about it and due to your hostile attitude in spite of the truth. The first case got a 2 months ban. The other 2 cases were treated lightly because they admitted it, before we could even talk with them, apologised and promised not to do it again.(we didn`t even told them why we want to talk with them when they apologised and promised)
Unfortunately, I cannot mention the player nicknames because I don`t consider such an action to be fit, but I consider I have given you enough information about this matter.

Now please, let it go. This isn`t a new subject, this isn`t a subject where we are blind.

49
Suggestions / Re: Changing Moneytransfers
« on: November 24, 2013, 09:21:14 pm »
Imus, I`ll go off-topic a bit and ask when are we gonna see you around here? :) I was curious about this for some time :D

50
Suggestions / Re: Changing Moneytransfers
« on: November 23, 2013, 08:38:31 am »
People.....relax about this problem.

1. Kwissy, it has been more then 2 weeks since your ban expired, and you still haven`t gotten over this. Yesterday you asked someone how he got 927 points for s4....if he money transfered. Now you suggest to turn off money transfer.

Hint: There are many ways of cheating a scoring system. Money transfer is just one. But most of the attempts get caught. Why do they get caught, I won`t tell you, but it is enough to know that they do. The same way you were caught.

You don`t have to do a "deep investigation". It is actually quite easy easy to spot scoring cheaters.

Also, this is not the parliament. We don`t administrate a database of 50 million players that live in our servers to afford to say "if it`s not in the rules, it is legal".
We do not have the means to cover that idea, and most certainly a lot time of time would be lost into developing a system of rules because each admin has their own oppinion about this matter.

In the end, I find it more simple to just allow money transfer, and punish the cheaters. Also Kwissy, when you get 1800 points for 2 players, you knew that it is cheat, because there is no way that you can normally get that amount of points.

My advice: Don`t be stuck on what you did. Simply move on. It was a mistake.....or so I consider it to be. But do not turn this into the goal of your life.

2. Beul: I agree with your first oppinion. Indeed we can turn it off or keep it. I consider it can be kept for reasons which were described in the forum (if i`m not remembering wrong)

3. Naz: We don`t need an in depth investigation. It takes us about 5 minutes to realise if a score is cheated. Not to even mention that admins with access to the database can see that instantly.

P.S. After looking at the rules. Rule 1: Respect the Multiplayer Rules

When looking into the Multiplayer Rules : http://wiki.openttd.org/Multiplayer_Rules     , you find this:

Don't cheat to advance yourself within the game. Joining a company operated by someone else or starting another company to transfer money to your own company is unacceptable behaviour, unless the originally owning player made it clear that he or she is leaving the game, has no intentions to return and offers themselves or their resources to anyone else who wants them

So Kwissy, I ask you one more time: Are you sure that you were banned for doing something that it is not within the rules?

51
Complaints / Re: Automatic restart?
« on: November 14, 2013, 07:51:40 pm »
Beul, there is no !voterestart on the server. The !vote commands are disabled there. That`s why the big argument.  Restart_when_idle to 12 hours would mean that a player could keep s8 running only for himself even while sleeping for 10 hours. That`s what I do not find fair.

Nobody except an admin could restart it.

52
Complaints / Re: Automatic restart?
« on: November 13, 2013, 03:46:30 pm »
I`ll take a look in the week-end at the join timeout. About the restart_when_idle , we can talk after I see more oppinions

53
Complaints / Re: Automatic restart?
« on: October 28, 2013, 02:29:12 pm »
I am sorry, but here I must disagree. If you take a look on the other view of the problem, you are asking to run a server for 12 hours without restarting or !voterestart. I consider that 3h30 is more then enough time considering a server that`s supposed to active.

Judging by this menthality, others could start saying "let`s start 2 servers like #8 because I wanted to play on it last night, but I couldn`t because someone was already at 50% of the goal and there was no point". This would conclude in wasting a lot of resources from machine1 for a game which would just add profit endless for networks built in 1-4 hours. Currently we have a lot of new ideas for new servers but no space to implement them. Yet we keep processing power locked inside a big server.
I`m not saying that we should change server 8. Not at all. It has reached it`s goal: Developing it`s own database of players.

What I`m trying to say is that with big servers, come also great risks. I played on s5 too. A lot of times. From the total number of games that I played, more then 40% were lost games that ended up with me going to sleep and not being here when the server ended. Or some other player voterestarting the server. I never counted how many points I lost or how many games I lost. It`s a part of the risk of playing such a server. I can understand what you are asking and day by day , month by month, we have tried to find alternate means to compensate the loss of points. But everything up to a point.

For this, the answer is simple: we simply do not have enough processing power to waste it by keeping a server of the size of s8 locked for 12 hours. If we would have an additional machine, things would have been different.

On another side of the problem, think about the morality of this. Why not extend server 3 or server 1 to a point where people just play the original goal (150 MIL) , reaching a number x of points and then they go to sleep. During their sleep, the server continues to run and counts points that are not for playing. When they wake up, they log in, they change a few trains and they have the same number of points X + 500 points which they got during their sleep. Which is the real number of points that should be counted: x ? or x+500?

I think I understand very well the problems that come with big servers, but it needs to be watched from all sides. I`ve got angry a lot of times for losing points, but when I thought about it in the end, I considered them normal things. I also like developing a network and maintaining it over 2-3-4 days maybe even a week, but unfortunately , in the present day, that can only be done on single player. The internet connection and the OpenTTD clients are simply not powerfull enough to hold.

I can tell you the server 8 is the no1 cause of errors ,processes going in infinite loops and lag on the machine. I don`t think it would be fair to accept all that for a server that would run without the restarting possibility for at least 12 hours.

If I`m wrong, please correct me. I would sure like to see more oppinions on this matter. Also, aditsu and Naz, please argument your oppinions.

54
Ban/Unban Requests / Re: Help! Still Banned!!
« on: October 25, 2013, 08:34:48 pm »
Just a second, Batt will explain you what`s the problem with your ip

55
Ban/Unban Requests / Re: Help! Still Banned!!
« on: October 25, 2013, 08:34:20 pm »
Not at all. Venezuela is a country like any other country.

56
Ban/Unban Requests / Re: Help! Still Banned!!
« on: October 25, 2013, 08:30:31 pm »
[23:27] * +OTTD-3 * ---> Dirlack (#8/190.72.86.17/VE) has joined the game
[23:27] * +OTTD-3 * >> Dirlack (#8/localhost [190.72.86.17]/VE) has joined spectators
[23:27] * +OTTD-3 * !! Dirlack (#8/255 (Spectator)) has been detected as open proxy/botnet zombie! Banning player!
[23:27] * +OTTD-3 * <--- Dirlack (#8/localhost [190.72.86.17]/255 (Spectator)/VE) has left the game (kicked by server)

This is what happens. The ban is fully automatic. Any ideas why it might target you?

57
Ban/Unban Requests / Re: Help! Still Banned!!
« on: October 25, 2013, 08:28:48 pm »
hmmm....now i finally understood what`s happening. Are you trying to join through a proxy?

58
Ban/Unban Requests / Re: Help! Still Banned!!
« on: October 25, 2013, 08:27:00 pm »
U may try to join

59
Ban/Unban Requests / Re: Help! Still Banned!!
« on: October 25, 2013, 08:24:06 pm »
Yes...we`re shutting the server right now. I will post here when u can login.

60
Ban/Unban Requests / Re: Help! Still Banned!!
« on: October 25, 2013, 08:19:55 pm »
Uff...found your ban. Sorry for it....It was written in OpenTTD. I will try to remove in a short time. I have to shutdown the server for that.

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