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Messages - Aberwyvern

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What should i have said to Aberwyvern when he stated that industries occupy 60% of their own cachement [sic] area? For god`s sake we would have physicians astounded by that statement......Should i have said " Go on" when he kept on stating a wrong vision?

I have tried to explain this to you, twice before the restart, and also here on the forum (where YorVeX seems to understand), but i will gladly explain it to you again, since I have tried my best to explain it with words and you still continue to mock me, i will explain with screenshots:





Rule four states that no player must occupy more than 50 % of the space around an industry, and since this "space around" is different from the "coverage area" used in rule 3, i assumed they were different, and the screenshots show my assumptions, after the reset, Batt explained that the two areas were meant to be read as the same, and that is why I suggested clarifying that in the rules.

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@Aberwyvern so do you think rephrasing the "of the space" part to to make it more clear would help?
Yes I think that would make it more clear, and I would in general suggest that when a particular thing is meant, in more than one section of the rules, it should be worded in the same or in a very similar way.



"with other words" means wrapped in sarcasm and with the usual taste of "all n-ice admins are evil", later even going as far as insinuating personal agendas with ill-minded plans to let things escalate for enforcement of a settings change someone wants.

I think the reason ZeroIncome talks about ST2's personal agenda, is that he stated in his post that he doesn't like the practice of funding towns and making several industries close to each other, and would like either a rule that forbids it, or change the server settings so it is no longer possible. (ST2's agenda)

But his justification for restarting the server was:

the damage was already done

The only irreversible action i had taken was to fund these towns and industries. He could have asked me to remove the stations, rails and signs that he claimed were blocking other players. Or he could have reset the company. But his dislike for clusters of industries made him reset the server, and I think his agenda made him assume bad faith, and he therefore made a rash decision to restart the server. I don't think it was part of a plot by ST2 to spark changes of the server settings, but it did cause him to enforce a rule, that he would like to be, but that is not (yet?) on the rules page.

@YorVex: I have read your post in the suggestions section about rule four, I have further suggestions to clarifying that rule, and I will post them there later.

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Hello I enjoy playing on the n-ice servers and i never meant to brake any rules, therefore i carefully read them when i started to play here a few weeks ago. But i was very surprised by the reaction that i got from the admin alex879ro, who refused to listen to my arguments, and simply said I was in violation of rule four, and then finished the conversation with the sentence "the rules are clear END OF DISCUSSION" before calling a restart of the server. But i beg to differ, after the restart i talked to Batt, another admin, who listened and  explained his interpretation of rule four, by making signs on the map, and i must say it is not very clear from the rules listed on the website that it meant what he explained.

Rule four states:
" Occupy at maximum 50% of the space around an industry/town. "

The phrase "of the space around" is where the misunderstanding lies, by Batts demonstration I am lead to believe it means the area in which, if a station is placed, it will cover the industry/town, in other words, it is the cover area of a potential station. My original understanding of the phrase was the area consisting of the tiles around it  My reasoning is as follows:
In rule four, the phrase used to describe the cover area of a station is different from the cover area, and i therefore thought the area that was implied was another area than the cover area, since the wording is different. This could of course be interpreted in both (or possibly other?) ways. But the part that is the most deceptive about the rule is that the proper term cover area is used in rule three:

" Don't build stations or station parts that serve the sole purpose of increasing the coverage area "

There therefore exist two references to the same area, but using two different wordings, which i would say is unnecessarily confusing, and it is what lead by to think that they were two different areas, and i would suggest that either the same term is used in both rules, preferably using cover area, or that the non existing difference between them is explained on the page containing the detailed rules, which currently just uses both terms, as the page with the regular rules.

Furthermore, the rule I was told my building around the town of "Aberwyvern" is also rule four, that states in the first part:

" Don't block other players. Reserving land to keep others out of a place is also considered blocking, as is placing obstructions in front of where others are currently building. "

Since, as you mentioned, I was alone on the server, I could not possibly have been in violation of rule four. firstly because there were no other players to block, secondly: there was plenty of room inside the rails and signs, so it can not be considered keeping others out, I believe that most OTTD players who looks at the way the roads are placed, that the ring was in place to contain and steer the growth of the city, not to keep outsiders out (since the town had only 772 inhabitants at the time of your screenshot, the transport of the passengers, mail and goods to the city, would only have caused it to grow faster, and since my station was already in place, and so close to the city center, i would benefit from this).

Another thing that bothers me about rule four, is that the limit at 50 %, seems to have been quite arbitrarily chosen, since something as common as a four row station with a bend at the beginning, goes over this limit:


The unconnected rail tiles outline the cover area of the coal mine

Whether or not players should be allowed to build industries close to each other as I did, is up for discussion, I think it should have been in a post by itself (perhaps in the suggestions section), and not together with references to the player that did it, since it is currently not against the rules, there is no reason to write a rant about me because i make a legal move, that you think should be illegal.

But to start the discussion I will make some arguments for keeping the current system of allowing players to fund towns and build industries close to each other:

It does not harm other players, they might make money off it as well, since competition is allowed
It is an investment just as any other in the game, and it takes quite a while to breakeven:


This is a graph from the same game that your screenshots are from, and it shows the high cost of funding both towns and industries, and it also shows that there are not huge sums to be made from this, since the company value only rises slightly faster after each investment, and for this reason, this practice is markedly different from other "tricks" such as building very long trains entirely out of locomotives to get your company value up.

I hope you will have some use of my suggestions.

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